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A Tale of Two Patterns

A Tale of Two Patterns

- Gold only has value if it can be traded. Knowledge only has value if it can be applied.

- Insecurity is loud. Confidence is quiet.

Introduction

Well, as we all know the PI/OM/AC online community is currently in its latest death throes, with a pretty intense and nasty civil war going on between Hyperianism and the AC/PI . This is either the second or third iteration of online Illuminism (*1) that has failed, at least according to the AC. As an outsider, and someone who is not involved in either the AC, or Hyperianism, I wrote a prior post called "The State of the (Collective) Monad" commenting on this situation already.

*1 The first being the "cypher gang" era, the second being the Diabolically Informative era, and the third being the hyperianism era.

After writing this last "state of" post, I thought I was done commenting on the politics of the community. As I've made clear in my prior posts, being an engineer and more technically inclined, I'm not especially interested in the communal aspects of PI, or in establishing a new world order (esp. via Meritocracy). However, I am interested in the personal development potential, the grand insights, the Systems Engineering proto-language, and the deep metaphysical understanding that comes from learning OM, the "crown jewel" of Pythagorean Illuminism. In short, I'm almost exclusively interested in the "math" and not the politics. And since I'm not an active member in any online OM/PI communities (nor am I welcome (*2)), let's face it, it's not really my place to be commenting on something I arguably know nothing about.

*2 But in a weird way, the exclusion has had the fortunate benefit of keeping me from going down with the Titanic at least 2x.

However, with the spate of videos coming out from some of the former Hyperian mods, I must admit that it has been really interesting to hear and see from the people behind the scenes -- even if Hyperian mods are only second-level derivatives of the 8000 or so in the "core" Illuminati (the Hyperian mods communicated with an illuminati communication cell, which is itself a derivate of the core group). In addition to all the "why we hate Morgue" videos there are also the books Delete Hyperianism from David Sinclair, and Take Hyperianism to the morgue, book 1. While I'm not really into the out and out bashing of Morgue, or any individual for that matter, it does give a fascinating insight into the way Hyperianism/PI works at the implementational level, and I've gained a few insights about PI as a result. What I've learned from these insights is what I intend to share in this post.

The AC is usually pretty disciplined about what message they present. This is one obvious advantage of getting your message out solely through books. They don't directly have an official online presence for some reason. This is where they insist on farming it out to groups like hyperianism, or other delegates. So while there is some online activity, it's typically not done by anyone in the AC proper, so if someone says something off-script, you can't necessarily attribute it to the AC. But it's in times of transition, like when they decide to kill off their on-line community, that is to say times of crisis, when they start doing and saying things with less forethought, and their controlled public mask can slip and allow you to see what's really going on behind the scenes. Kind of like Hillary Clinton's "Basket of deplorables" comment. She apologized for saying it, but everyone knows this was a rare moment of truth, and it's how she actually feels, and the only thing she's sorry about is getting caught.

I also noticed this same ugly side when the first iteration of on-line illuminism was being cancelled, e.g. the "cypher gang" era. Try reading Illuminism Contra Discordian by Brother Cato if you want to see how savage they can be. Actually, just now in skimming this book to verify it's the book I was thinking of, I am reminded of how absolutely brutal and indeed sociopathic they can be. Remember, the people they are savaging were their former online supporters. I don't know all the details of the dispute as it was before my time, but the "cypher gang" just seems like a bunch of people exploring ideas, learning new things, trying to come up with an understanding of the world, and having some fun arguing and debating on-line. Of course some of what they say is probably wrong or foolish as they're not professional philosophers, but why be so harsh on them? These are newsgroup postings, like on Reddit. People are just saying things in an impromptu fashion. It's supposed to be fun. It's like a professional musician berating someone who's just learning their instrument. Why not try to work with people and encourage them in a positive way to do better, instead of being a bunch of bullies *4?

*4 I am aware though, that once the cypher gang felt they were abandoned by the AC, they did decide to "turn" on the AC, and started posting overtly negative things. But the thing that kicked the whole dispute off, as far as I know, was they wanted to host a user meet-up (in actual meat-space) where they were to talk about PI, plus some other new-agey ideas. The fact that they didn't ask for permission, plus that they were going to mix in non-PI topics is what caused the AC to become unhinged and turn on their supporters.

But now, with the equally ugly character assassination going on with Morgue and Hyperianism, I'm reminded once again of the Mr. Hyde associated with the doctor Jekyll. The first time, I was so bedazzled by OM, as I was in that sweet spot of the learning curve where I was starting to see ontological reality for the first time, I just ignored the warning signs. But now that it's coming up again, I just don't know if I can ignore it. I can see how seriously they take this topic. Granted, it is a serious topic, but once things start getting down to threats, lawsuits, and character assassination, I'm afraid the game is getting a little too intense for the likes of myself.

My Last Post?

Before I get into the main insight I gained, which will involve a fair amount of setup and explanation, let me motivate the reader by stating that as result of the new insight/model explained in this post, this might be my last post on OM/PI as a result. I know that's a pretty intense statement to make. Believe me, I'm not trying to be a "drama queen" or anything. In fact, this will most likely not be my last post. It's Just that the way I feel right now at the time of this writing, where I'm starting to see what the true nature of the AC is for the first time, and appreciating what the "problem" is with it and online Illuminism, it makes me realize the futility of posting further on the topic of OM. I'll have more to say about this at the end.

The original title of this blog series was "On the road to Pythagorean Illuminism". My goal was to just kind of document my journey of learning OM/PI. My original audience then, as it is now, is "me from six years ago", e.g. I'm writing for my former self. I don't really know who my audience is since I get almost zero feedback. When I first started learning about OM, there were almost no online sites, videos, or facebook pages. And the ones that were there were either rabidly fanatical -- people who just worshipped PI and the AC authors, of whom they felt could do no wrong, or mindless, reactionary "trolls" (I actually hate that word since AC confuses it as simply as anyone who disagrees with them) who obviously never read any of the GS books, and just excused it out of hand as a cult. So my original mission was to satisfy the middle of the market: someone who likes OM, but not mindlessly so.

Whether this is my last post or not, I think it's starting to become clear to me that I am nearing the end of my public journey with OM anyway. I mean, I'm already only posting at the rate of about once every six months. In private, I will continue to progress with further study, especially using it as a springboard for other areas, as I still love OM as much as ever. However, as might have become apparent in some of my later posts, and especially in this post, I am becoming increasingly alienated from the PI and AC. Basically, what I'm saying is I love OM, but I don't like Meritocracy, and I don't like the people who run the AC. With the basic demise of hyperianism and the way in which they are doing it, I don't know if I should be posting anymore. I know it may seem hard for the AC to believe (if they even read my site at all) but I am honestly trying to contribute to the online OM community. Yes, I have a few things that I'm critical of, but I also have plenty of parts where I say how much I like it. And many of my "criticisms" are really just questions -- things I'm trying to figure out if I properly understand it or not. I have never professed to be an expert. I'm just writing for me and my goal is to make people think. Even if I say something stupid or wrong, if I made you think, then I did my job.

And in the spirit of my original title "on the road to PI", I unfortunately have to document the end as well, as ugly as that may be. Look, I appreciate that the AC doesn't like negative comments from "trolls" like me (I don't know if in fact they would consider me to be a troll, but based on what they've written about other "trolls" I would have to say they probably would, a troll basically being someone who doesn't agree with everything they have to say). Believe it or not, I'm not actually trying to be a troll. I am genuinely interested in getting people to learn OM. I think if anyone reads my posts, their curiosity about OM would only be piqued, and would be astonished that anyone could consider it to constitute the work of a troll.

In any event, troll or not, I think I've managed to say about 75% of what I wanted to say anyway, and there's not much use to keeping on posting, especially when it's becoming so obvious to me that I'm despised by the community and esp. the AC as a whole. Can I still, in good faith, try to encourage people to follow a system that is governed by such toxic people? Also, maybe at the end of their third (failed) attempt of getting online PI started, maybe it's a good time for me to bow out, and let them have a clean slate for the fourth go round.

However, like I said I'm not ready to fully say "goodbye" just yet. I certainly don't intend to take down the posts I've generated so far.

But for now, let's establish the language/model of my new insight first.

Design Patterns

Design patterns are an idea from Software Engineering. Basically they're just a template for modeling certain situations that come up over and over again. You can kind of think of them like Jungian archetypes -- a form,structure, or abstraction of something that can be extracted from (and is common to) many baser elements. With the further property that these forms or patterns are sufficiently abstract enough to be considered universal, recognizable in any culture, even potentially an alien one like Martians.

So in this spirit, I would like to propose two patterns that I believe are apropos to OM. Note, in this first section I will merely describe the patterns and not initially relate them to OM. Then, in the next section, I will then relate them to OM, and explain the ramifications.

The first pattern I call the Theosophy pattern.

Theosophy Pattern

The theosophy pattern has two elements: the mumbo jumbo (or vector) and the payload. The mumbo-jumbo is the theoretical foundation of the pattern. It's job is to give a rationalization to the theosophy -- e.g to make it sound important, and convince people it has something deep to say. The second part of the pattern is called the payload. The payload is the most important part of the theosophy pattern, at least to the propagators of it. This is what you want the people indoctrinated into the theosophy to actually believe or do.

We can further break the payload down in two ways: the "official" payload, and the "unofficial" payload. Let's take Christianity for example. The official payload would be something like "we want people to accept Jesus Christ, so the world is a better place, and also so they can go to heaven when they die". The unofficial payload might be "we want them to donate money to our church, and also obey us when we tell them what to do". The payload is typically more emotionally based. People do it subconsciously because they've "bought into" the system. The behavior may even be irrational -- it certainly would be irrational to tithe, or give 10%, of your income to some random institution, but people willingly do it as part of an organized religion.

Of course, you have to motivate people to actually do the desired behavior of the payload. This is where the mumbo jumbo comes in. This is the "intellectual" hook, if you will. It's the technical part of the system, that you need people to buy into so you can then deliver the payload (via memes into their minds). Now, just because it's called "mumbo jumbo" it doesn't necessarily have to be, well, mumbo jumbo. It can be completely rational and make perfect sense. However, in practice it usually is a bunch of bullshit, with all sorts of psychological patterns to subconsciously manipulate people. Of course the Meyers-Briggs personality type of your target audience determines what form the mumbo jumbo takes. In the case of Christianity, which is primarily targeted at SF's (e.g. ESF), you can get away with something as ridiculous as the bible, and people will still buy into it. If your target group is high-IQ INT's, as is the case with OM, then you are going to need a much more realistic, and rational form of "mumbo jumbo".

Another analogy is a virus. The virus body represents the mumbo jumbo, and the nucleic acid in the head represents the payload:

Note, how this is the archetype for all viruses. To deliver a different type of virus you can use the same vessel, you just have to substitute a different payload.

You can think of the payload as the "solution" to the "question" created by the mumbo-jumbo. Kind of like getting men to buy into the belief, the "problem" if you will, that while they're getting older, how will they still appeal to younger women? A rational "solution" to this problem might be something like "get in shape", or "become more successful", but more often than not the solution (or payload) is something along the lines of "buy a red sports car". Basically, in the theosophy pattern the payload comes first: buy a red sports car. Then the question becomes what kind of mumbo-jumbo can we come up with, to make people want to do this? That is to say the payload is the classic "solution looking for a problem", and this is where the mumbo-jumbo is proactively engineered to create the "problem" or backdrop that advances the desire for the solution.

However, it may also be the case that the payload has nothing to do at all with mumbo-jumbo. Once people buy into a theosophy, you can much more readily get them to buy into a payload even if it has nothing to do with the nominal intent of the mumbo-jumbo.

Now, we will cover the second pattern: the Inversion of Control pattern.

The Inversion of Control Pattern

The Inversion of Control (IOC) Pattern AKA the flip-flop pattern. The IOC pattern is when what is secondary becomes primary. Other ways to describe it are when the background becomes the foreground, or when a side effect becomes the primary cause.

An example is the pharmaceutical drug Viagra. It was originally developed as a high blood pressure medication, but during testing lots of patients reported a side effect that, let's just say, got to the hard truth. At the time there were very few, if any, ED treatments available, so this was a very valuable commodity -- much more so than yet another high blood pressure medication, so they quickly pivoted, in an IOC fashion, and made the side effect the primary cause.

Some common phrases related to this pattern are "when the servant becomes the master", or "the tail wagging the dog".

Another example might be someone running a shell company to front some sort of illegal back-end business. In this case the illegal back-end activity is the primary concern, and the shell company is is the secondary concern. However, let's say the particular front-end company was was a fake internet provider company. Now, a shell company has to have at least some semblance of being a "real" company. So let's say they buy a few PC's, and get a few actual customers. Then let's say they also hire one or two techies to run these servers. Now, let's say this happens to be in the early 90's when the Internet started to take off. It could plausibly happen that in this particular case, through sheer dumb luck, that the secondary business may in fact become much more profitable and valuable than the primary concern of money laundering. If this in fact happens, you could say the shell company undergoes an inversion-of-control pattern, and the secondary concern now becomes the primary.

At the risk of belaboring the point, another interesting IOC in the economy as a whole is the relative importance of finance vis a vis economics. Take oil for instance. In the 1970's and 1980's, for every billion dollars in oil traded (e.g. economic activity) there was about 100 million dollars worth of financial instruments associated with that trade (derivatives, insurance, short sales, stock etc). That is to say about 10% of all monetary transactions were financial. Today, for every billion in oil sales there is 1.7 billion worth of financial worth of financial transactions, equal to 170% the value of the oil itself. That's a 17x increase in financial activity, and it's now exceeds the economic activity by 70%. Note, finances (no wealth creation and zero-sum) are supposed to be a secondary aid to the economics (actual wealth creation, and non zero-sum). Nowadays people make more money off the financial instruments of oil than the oil itself. IOC indeed.

The Patterns Applied to OM

So now that we have those quick introductions about our "tale of two patterns" out of the way, we now have the language and model to start giving us some insights about OM vis a vis these patterns.

The Theosophy Pattern Applied to OM

First off, I would say OM definitely follows the Theosophy pattern, which is perhaps not too surprising since even the authors occasionally describe it as a theosophy. Or more accurately, I should say that PI (Pythagorean Illuminism) is a theosophy, since the vector (or mumbo-jumbo) of PI is OM.

OM is the Vector of the theosophy. That is to say OM is the intellectual foundation and hook of the PI theosophy pattern.

So what then is the payload of PI? I said previously that the payload is the most important part of the pattern. If OM is the vector, it can't be the payload. Which seems strange on the surface since nominally OM is supposedly the "core" and central purpose of PI. What could possibly be more important than OM? Well, I would say nothing. I think OM should also be the payload as well. It should be the beginning and the end, the journey and the destination. However, we're not talking about me, rather we're talking about the AC/PI. This is the thing that became quite clear to me after reading all their "Why We hate hyperianism" retaliator material:

The thing that I now realize that the AC/PI cares the most about, their payload, is Meritocracy and radical Jacobinism, and not Ontological Math proper. That is to say the real goal of PI is to create political activists who will work towards a radical overthrow of the current capitalistic form of government.

And from these people they want the "three t's": time, talent, and treasure: not a bunch of lazy good-for-nothing intellectuals, inert theorists who never accomplish anything, but real advocates -- revolutionaries, who will take action and make a difference. Since they openly advocate for Meritocracy and Jacobinism (honestly, mostly just socialism IMO) this perhaps isn't a surprise. But I think what is most surprising to me, something that I initially had trouble realizing, and then trouble admitting, is that this is their primary focus -- something that is much more important to them than even OM itself.

And it's not just me who shares this opinion. The AC wrote a book called "The Dunciad" by Brother Malus that was banned on Amazon. In it they mentioned that there was a college professor, I believe from Spain, who said he wrote some articles that were incorporated into the God Series. The authors denied that anyone outside of their communication cell contributed to the GS. However, since the book was banned on Amazon and subsequently deleted from my Kindle without my permission, I assume this professor sued the AC for libel and won (note: they didn't just merely accuse him of lying, but went full retaliator mode on him and called him a fraud and made fun of him in their usual fashion), and that's why it was removed. I believe he was a credible source and that he did write some essays for the GS, as he was very qualified scholastically, and was gainfully employed -- this is just not something someone of his caliber would decide to randomly make up. After all, how many university professors have even heard of the GS? What would he gain by saying this? Anyway, I remember reading an interview with him where he mentioned that in his interactions with the AC, he said they were mostly interested in talking about Meritocracy. He said, they didn't seem especially interested in talking about philosophy, or math. Of course, I can't remember the guy's name (since I don't have the book anymore), but I distinctly remember him making this point in the interview. I remember because at the time, as well as now, he is one of the few people who has interacted with the AC and actually discussed what the people were like. Of course, it's a complete mystery who is actually in the PI, and that's why it was so fascinating to read this interview. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but I thought I'd just offer it as some independent corroboration to my assertion.

The IOC Pattern Applied to OM

Let's now examine how the second pattern relates to OM/PI.

It may seem awfully insulting for me to refer to OM as "mumbo-jumbo". By referring to OM as mumbo-jumbo am I in effect suggesting that OM is a bunch of bullshit? The answer is a resounding no. I do not think OM is BS. I wouldn't have spent six years of my life studying it if I did. However, there are two ways for me to reach this conclusion. First of all, I said the the mumbo-jumbo portion of the Theosophy pattern is oftentimes BS. But it doesn't have to be. It could be a completely rational model. Which I think OM is. However, I think OM probably started out as essentially BS (*5). That's where my second pattern, the Inversion of Control pattern comes into play. You see, something funny happened during the memetic evolution of PI -- the BS mumbo-jumbo of the theosophy pattern underwent the IOC pattern and the mumbo-jumbo turned into a crown jewel.

*5 Certainly, at the earliest stages created by Pythagoras himself, it was certainly incomplete esp. as by the current level of OM. Early pythagoreanism had no monadology, Euler's Eq, Fourier transforms, 6-d space-time etc that the current version has, obviously though through no fault of Pythagoras himself.

OM, previously the mumbo-jumbo in a theosophy pattern, has now become the master. It's now more valuable than any theosophy or ideological payload it's been yoked to. OM is greater than Meritocracy, or radical Jacobinism. It should be unshackled and let free to develop on it's own independent of other doctrines, ideologies, or dogmas.

Theosopoy and Meyer-Briggs

Let's take a little side trip and explore the mumbo-jumbo associated with various theosophies. Let's look at the typical theosophies for the four branches of Meyer-Briggs (MBTI): SF, NF, ST, and NT. Note, the two inner letters of the MBTI constitute basically the four tribes of humanity: SF is sensing-feeling, NF is intuitive-feeling, ST is sensing-thinking, and IT is is intuitive thinking.

For the SF tribe, their modality is religion. As philosopher Daniel Dennett suggests, religion has been cultivated over the centuries via memetic evolution, to optimize the infection rate among sensing-feeling types. SF's are very strong on emotionalism and weak on rationality. Thus, SF religions have been engineered to work on this tribe's feelings and emotions, with the main sacrifice being rationality and logic. So the mumbo-jumbo that infects SF's is all about love and feelings, and is maximally irrational and alienated from the truth.

I'm not going to go further into the other types, since this is a topic well-covered by the God Series and Truth Series already, but suffice it to say the following table holds:

Type       Modality  
----       --------
SF         Religion  
NF         Mysticism/New-ageism  
ST         Science  
NT         Math

The order I presented the table is from least rational (SF) to most rational (NT). All mumbo-jumbo created by the first three tribes will be maximally alienated from the truth, while the one generated by the NT tribe will asymptotically approach the truth. Obviously, mainstream religion is the most alienated from rationalism, reason, and reality. The new-ageism of the NF, while a step up from absurdity of Abrahamism, is still mostly mystical BS. Once we get to ST (Scientific), things start to get a little more interesting, because I will concede that science is becoming maximally useful. But as adherents to the materialistic paradigm, and with a reliance on the senses (empiricism), as far as an understanding of reality goes it's still alienated. Science is only aware of the epistemic side of things and not the ontic side, thus is incomplete.

The only tribe that will "accidentally" or unintentionally, uncover the truth (naturally and without even trying) is the NT tribe. That is to say, given enough time they will reason their to way something that is very powerful and truthful. And that's what happened with OM. It started off as a bunch of loose memes that appeal to NT types (e.g. all is number), that were engineered as part of a larger theosophy called PI (Pythagorean Illuminism). But over time, like a front company that becomes more useful than the shadow company, or the servant overtaking the master, OM evolved via the IOC pattern to become more useful than any theosophy or payload that it might have been tethered to.

So basically that's what's happened with PI. Their mumbo-jumbo has evolved into a first-class citizen. The shell corporation has become viable on it's own. There's no longer any need for it be hitched to some arbitrary payload.

It's abundantly obvious to me from reading all their "retaliator" books (Illuminism Contra Discordian, Delete Hyperianism, Take Hyperianism to the Morgue etc.) that the thing the AC really hates about potential PI followers is when they substitute their personal payload (e.g. wokeism, libertarianism, conservatism etc.) for the AC's preferred payload of Meritocracy/Radical Jacobinism in the Theosophy pattern. I posit to you that if Morgue were doing all the supposedly bad things the AC accuses him of, like being a cult leader, not crediting the AC enough, not sharing the spotlight, and not having a deep understanding of math and philosophy etc., while towing the line on meritocracy, that is to say not advocating for "Californian wokeism", and as a result was recruiting Jacobin activists instead of love and lighters, he would be praised to high-heaven by the AC. That is to say the AC is applying situational ethics -- they would gladly look the other way if they felt they were achieving their real goals.

They don't want to relinquish control over their vector -- a system that is very effective at "infecting" NT types. Once members of the NT tribe accept their "system" they are primed, so they believe, to accept the payload of Meritocracy. I think they realize that Meritocracy on it's own will never get anywhere without the bundling of OM: people need a little "sugar" to accept what is a pretty bitter pill.

This is similar to how a company like Microsoft is uncomfortable having its OS being used for things like porn. Indeed, some companies like PayPal refuse to do business with certain companies. I used to work for a company that had some adult content, and we were unable to accept payment from Paypal as a result. Entities jealously guard their intellectual property and their brand. They want complete control over who can use it and who can't. I think this is how the AC feels towards anyone using OM to deliver an unacceptable payload. The payload the hyperianism is using OM to deliver is "California wokeism", as they say. Indeed, in one of my videos I also suggested the possibility of hitching OM to libertarianism, which to me is highly compatible with OM.

Bottom Line

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the one insight I've had recently, that came from watching all the "Hate Morgue" videos and reading the associated books, is not that the AC is pro-Meritocracy (which I knew), but that the level to which they believe in it is much greater than I thought. In fact, I now realize it's their primary focus. Before I would have said that the AC felt Meritocracy was an important component of PI, one of many, but that OM was their main focus. That is to say, I felt their goal was to spread and promote OM as much as possible, for the sole purpose of promoting OM, not simply as a vehicle for some subsequent political ideology. This may be a subtle distinction, but it yielded a big insight for me.

Maybe it's obvious to everyone else, but if you just read the GS and TS, you may not get this since they do mostly talk about OM, and philosophy.

But when the masks come off, and they start writing without their usual forethought as they do in any of their cancel campaigns, I believe I caught a glimpse of the men behind the curtain.

I realize now, that with respect to OM, my goals and the goals of the AC and are misaligned. I don't think the AC necessarily has the best interests of OM at heart. This is a pretty brazen statement to make considering the AC are the ones who have devised and then delivered all the source material on OM. I definitely believe there is a contingent of people in the PI who passionately care about OM, and are actively refining, presenting, and improving it for the benefit of the whole world. I'm not talking about them. I applaud them. But there also seems to be a rather sizeable contingent who really only care about their political agenda. To them, OM is just a "vector", a system to rope in believers whom they can then usher to help achieve their political aims. To the extent this is true, then I do not consider the AC to be the best stewards of OM proper.

So in the end, what does all this mean? Let's say I'm right and the AC cares more about Meritocracy than OM itself. What does this mean for people like me who are mostly interested in OM only? Well, one thing I used to think was that someday maybe the AC would loosen up a bit, and de-couple OM from the rest of PI, and an independent on-line culture on OM would spontaneously arise in which people like me would feel welcome and free to comment and contribute. Now I think that's fundamentally a pipe dream, and I should just realize that I and others like me will never be welcome online.

I also used to say "Liberate OM". But now I also realize this will never happen. And honestly, why should the AC de-couple OM from PI? I mean, while they didn't create most of the base concepts, they did integrate disparate philosophies into one unified whole. It is their "system" and they did do a lot of work on it. And apparently they do have a copyright on it (belying the notion that it is, in fact, an invention and not a discovery)

Ironically, I remember reading (somewhere) where the AC said they try to tolerate right-wingers (people who emphasize individualism over collectivism) as much as possible under the belief that once they (the right-wingers) recognize that Meritocracy honors individualism at the base, but then at a higher level strives to unite into a cohesive collectivism, then they'll be able to "convert" libertarians like me to Meritocracy (*6). This is probably just as much a fantasy as my belief in liberating OM.

*6 I actually have nothing against the intent of Meritocracy. I'm not opposed to voluntary collectivism etc. As I said before, in a Star Trek, culture of abundance type of environment, even I might be willing to try Meritocracy. Just like I'm not opposed to big infrastructure projects either, in principle. I think it would be totally cool to have high-speed maglev trains everywhere, for instance. If we had enough abundance, then I'm all for it. However, we only have limited resources at this point in time so I'm against being forced to pay for all sorts of stuff I don't think we can afford or truly need.

I think what I need to do, and indeed everyone needs to do, is to just assess the situation for what it is, take a step back, and make an honest assessment. The PI/AC needs to realize if they only insist on appealing to 0.1% of population, they're never going to start a mass political movement. It's Ok if they decide on that, they just need to accept the consequences of doing it. Or they could decide to open it up and realize that, like Microsoft and porn, there will be people using their "operating system" for things they disagree with, and will reflect poorly on their brand ideal.

Likewise, people like me need to stop trying to pretend there will even be an open OM environment out there (as long as the AC is in control). And don't necessarily get mad at the AC or hold it against them for wanting to tightly control their system and their brand. If the AC ever attacked me, or asked me to stop referring to OM, I can just switch to talking about "transcendent mathematical idealism" and then use the 95% of OM that did not come directly from the AC -- that is to say "fork" my own philosophical Linux distribution at that point. After all, they didn't create Monadology, Euler's Equation, Fourier transforms etc. And even though Hyperianism and me differ on politics (I hate wokeism as much as the AC), what I said for me basically applies to them as a whole as well.

On a more positive note, keep this in mind: when in doubt, transcend. I basically have my own philosophy anyway (e.g. distribution) of which OM is only a part. My philosophy also has plenty of physics, functional programming, systems engineering, and other non-OM philosophies. And yes, Libertarianism. So I don't totally line up with the AC and never will. I think it's naive to think that any thinking person will ever totally line up with the AC, but they seem to think this is the case and anyone who tries to defy this is playing at their peril (of being attacked publicly by the AC).

Conclusion

In this paper I attempted to present a model to the reader about the structure of online Illuminism, from which everyone can then have a common language to hopefully make more rational deductions. Then we can explore some of the things that are wrong, or can be improved with online Illuminism.

To that end I introduced two patterns, the theosophy and inversion of control patterns, and then we reasoned about how they applied to OM. Ultimately, I realize that what I end up saying is rank opinion, but I tried to ground it in some neuteral language so the reader can at least understand where I'm coming from even if they don't agree with my analysis or my conclusion.

I tried to keep everything objective and positive. I don't intend this to be an attack piece. I'm just someone who has invested a lot of time and energy into a system, and who cares about it, and is trying in some way to help it.

Till the next time.

==== History

2023-03-15: First draft.
2023-04-25: Second draft.
2023-04-27: First publishing.

2023-05-10: Minor grammatical and spelling revisions.

Comments

  1. One note to add is that in a few places they have admitted that they have deliberately withheld some of the more technical details of ontological mathematics and have decided to mainly present a big picture, intuitive understanding of it instead. This to me suggests that their primary goal hasn't ever truly been to attract intellectuals who want to explore Ontological mathematics per say, but rather radical activists who want to pursue a political agenda. I think they may take this approach to mitigate the chance that somebody who understands the vector but happens to have a different payload (libertarianism, for instance), inadvertently discovers something new regarding OM. I think they know that if that were to happen, they wouldn't have the argument against that person that they do against Morgue, so they refrain from publishing deeper information regarding math and philosophy for damage control purposes, so to speak.

    I don't say this as someone who disagrees with all of their political opinions. I actually respect a fair amount of them. However, I find their insistence that ontological mathematics only be interpreted through a political lens to be very limiting, particularly because ontological mathematics may be critical in improving many fields, such as psychology and medicine, regardless of the political beliefs of people in those fields. So, while I may have a different opinion on politics as I am not libertarian, I do understand your reasoning, and I agree with your conclusion.

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    1. @Lightning Strike

      Goals as stated by the AC/GS authors (from book 23 - "Black Holes Are Souls"):

      *****
      All we require is the “Last Genius” – one final great mathematician who can convert every scientific theory into terms of nothing but sines, cosines and their phase relations, and then work out how to insert active mind into every one of these theories, including Darwinism, gravity and quantum mechanics. Then humanity will know everything ... and we shall be as Gods! That’s the prize that awaits. We are just one mathematical genius away from that goal. All of the ingredients are in place for that person ... all that is required is to assemble those ingredients in the optimal way that explains every detail of life down to the minutest detail. Are you that person?! Somewhere out there, the person we are waiting for is going about their business, probably blissfully unaware of the destiny that awaits them.

      People wonder what the Illuminati are really up to. We’ll tell you ... we are engaged in the greatest computing project in history, a project to use the God Equation, expressed through countless monads, to simulate every aspect and operation of the physical world, and to insert mind into all of those operations. The vast majority of members of the Illuminati work on that project (the “God Project”). The God Series is a tiny initiative designed to provide a written account of the thinking behind the God Project. With it, we can get new recruits up to speed much more quickly with what the God Project is all about. It’s nothing less than an enterprise to illuminate the whole world, and to make everyone an Illuminatus. Our task is nothing less than to reveal the Mind of God!
      *****

      Elsewhere they mentioned that they knew that by presenting the raw account of Illuminism/OM that they would be shrinking their audience down to close to zero. By this we know that the intention is to appeal to an extremely limited set of individuals. World-historic individuals. Hardliners.

      Throughout their books, there's always the undercurrent of calling for revolutionary change. Of revaluing all values. Of ushering in a New World Order, so I'm puzzled especially with you @mfaustTAN1945 as to how you read through dozens of books and still hold a libertarian/capitalist viewpoint. The only explanation I can think of is that none of the deconstructionism resonated and/or a part of you glossed over those aspects.

      To both of you, @Lightning Strike and @mfaustTAN1945 I would ask: How do you foresee all of us reaching our full potential? What is the best political, economic and social system to achieve that? I'd welcome an article detailing, say, how libertarianism is THE way forward for the universe to achieve its teleological purpose.

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  2. Great comment.

    Not only that, they claim in several places to have the actual holy grail. Not metaphorically speaking, but a real artifact of what is commonly referred to as the "holy grail", an artifact from the time of Christ, that is so powerful even the most senior members of the illuminati "hesitate to use it". Additionally, in their early books, they spent a lot of time talking about a "soul camera", a camera that with one picture can tell the spiritual level of a person's soul. Subsequently, in one of their coded fiction books, they basically spill the beans saying that it's kirlian photography (google it), which pseudo-science guys have using for decades to suggest that plants are conscious etc. They also talk about some higher entity, a sort of disembodied monad, that is able attach itself to various human bodies and control their bodies, as well as claiming that during initiation ceremonies elder illuminati are about to overtake the mind and body of a junior illuminati.

    If any of this were actually real and scientifically verifiable, it would certainly do a lot more to convince scientists and the general public than publishing *yet another* book. So why don't they do it? Probably because it's all BS.

    I would say this all ties into a third pattern: "the secret society pattern". There's always a lot of BS floating around a secret society. They certainly have a lot of cruft and mysticism that has built up over the years (e.g BDSM, sin for salvation. Give me a break). People who are in the club become very protective of it, and they have power and status, and they enjoy the whole "secret handshake" aspect of being an insider, I guess. So they don't want to give away all the crown jewels.

    Your comment does bring up something I've never understood. Even among people who agree with me, or people like Diabolically Informative who I mostly agree with, everyone seems to like Meritocracy for the most part. I've never heard from a single libertarian or conservative. That's just weird to me. I did read somewhere that people who identify as Atheist are something like 85% liberal. Maybe that's why, as I assume most people coming to OM are probably atheist. I certainly was a hard-core materialistic atheist before discovering OM. I disagree with conservatives on a lot of social issues, but I do mostly line up on economic issues, which is what I mostly care about.

    Do you actually like the idea of a 100% inheritance tax? Do you agree with "the politics of force"? Would you feel comfortable letting these guys have all the guns and all the capital? Meritocracy is anything but a true meritocracy, it's basically rule by philosopher kings.

    Ok, so don't get me started on meritocracy ha,ha.

    On a side note, Bernardo Kastrup is a pretty good advocate for idealism. I sometimes wonder if he's actually someone in the core Illuminate group.

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    1. I have to divide my response into 3 parts because this website complains that it is too long: 


      When I came across Meritocracy initially, I was 100% an unconditional supporter of it. In recent times, I have taken a step back from unconditionally supporting Meritocracy as the PI currently outlines it, because I suspect that they may be more politically authoritarian than I am.

      To put it into perspective, when I take the political compass test, I tend to score very left-leaning, but I steer towards the middle line that divides authoritarianism and libertarianism. I haven't ever really found myself - in the end at least - attracted to political ideologies that are either extremely anti-statist or extremely pro-statist. I'm probably more of a "centrist" on that particular political spectrum, if you will. I have begun to realize that because of the above, I would not ever be considered an ideal candidate for Meritocracy activism by their standards.

      I have concerns about exactly how far they would take state intervention. I once believed that their degree of state intervention extended merely to economics and political infrastructures, but I now realize that they want state intervention on a psychological, sociological, and perhaps even intimate level (by intimate, I mean concerning affairs that most people consider quite private). That has made me take a step back and I have begun to rethink my support of Meritocracy as they have outlined it.

      They have alluded that they *wouldn't* be totalitarian ("we're not the lifestyle police, we aren't the morality police"), but I'm not sure that I believe them. The Iranian Islamic clerics deliberately used women as part of their revolution in order to increase their numbers by lying to them about how much they supported women's rights and then took that away from them as soon as they were in power. I don't trust that any political agenda with authoritarian roots buried deep within wouldn't use the same tactics. History tends to demonstrate otherwise. 

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    2. So, if you're looking to hear from a dogmatic political activist in the name of Meritocracy, unfortunately I am not the best person to answer your questions. But to answer your questions from my own perspective,

      1) I might refrain from commenting much on the 100% inheritance tax, because I think this is where conservatives/libertarians and leftists/socialists might never see eye-to-eye on a very absolutist level, similar to the issue of abortion, which is another very binary ideological position where one side simply does not follow the reasoning of the other side. I will say I liked what one of the earlier authors suggested about each part of the world having their own city states where different political systems can be tried out, and better systems can thrive while worse systems can fail of their own accord. So no, I don't believe in brute force. 

      That being said, as idealistic and dare I say hippieish as it might sound, I would ultimately like technology to evolve to a point where money becomes less of an issue or even nonexistent. I have high hopes for humanity evolving to a 'Star Trek' future someday if we utilize our technology in the correct direction. Just like abortion could become almost a non-issue with nonsurgical reversible sterilization techniques that have a virtually zero percent chance of failure with almost no side effects whatsoever, so contraceptive failure is no longer an issue at hand; I think our modern debates about money could become a non-issue in the future with the right out-of-the-box thinking, innovation, and technology. 

      2) The politics of force as a weapon to gain/maintain control is an issue I haven't formed a final conclusion on if I'm being frank. On the one hand, the PI are right that if, ahem, certain people were eliminated from the get-go, toxic ideologies that spread like wildfire may never have formed, and humanity might have evolved to be scientific and later on rational at a much quicker rate. On the other hand, they  underestimate the power of martyrdom in the human psyche. The Romans intolerance for Jesus Christ and use of brute force against him led to his death on the cross, and, well, we all know how that went. 

      The French revolution is another example. On one hand, the French people were right to be fed up with a Monarchy that clearly didn't give two shits about them. I can't really blame them for getting angry with their king and for deciding that violence was the best course of action. On the other hand, the revolutionaries went so far with their violence that even their own supporters turned against them and eventually executed Robespierre. 

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    3. 3) I don't know how much I trust these people anymore. Here's why: 

      a) It astounds me that they supposedly advocate for working class issues, yet clearly don't understand the working class one bit. The working class aren't intellectual snobs with high-brow tastes. They're oftentimes working 2-3 jobs, they don't have fucking time to read a bunch of books that will insinuate that they are a retard every 30 paragraphs for not understanding concepts that they have zero time to learn. Also, many working class people are VERY attached to their families, as outside of work that's oftentimes the main people they have time to interact with and form bonds with. I'm not oblivious to these issues because I grew up in an extremely impoverished trailer park. For some reason, they are so fucking dumb on this front, despite all of their rhetoric. Even when they "dumb themselves down" they still sound condescending as fuck. I tried reading the Angelina Dawson books to an INFP, and while she liked the philosophy, she said she felt like she was being infantilized and talked down to. So yeah, some of their "easier" books are kind of a fail. 

      b) I have come up with a very real criticism of Meritocracy that I don't think they would care to listen to. I truly think this particular criticism could actually undermine a Meritocracy. 
      People's passions don't always align with their abilities. People's desires don't always align with their talents.
      For example, take one person who loves singing and listens to music everyday, but flat out doesn't have the natural talent for it. They have a very unappealing voice and no matter how many singing classes they take, they just don't ever get better and even if they improve tone, pitch, pronounciation, they still just don't naturally have a voice that sounds good. Take another person who has one of the most beautiful singing voices that has ever been heard, and yet doesn't care about music one bit. They don't listen to it, they don't like it, and they don't spend time with it. Eventually, considering that the untalented singer keeps practicing and the talented singer neglects their voice, the two people could even out eventually, with the untalented singer rising to mediocre singing and the talented singer devolving to mediocrity. 

      Meritocracy, by it's very nature, simply can't address this issue, and it's actually quite common in life for situations like this to occur. What if someone has the neurochemistry to potentially come up with discoveries on the level of Nikola Tesla, but has the desire to become a male stripper instead? What if someone has the greatest hand-eye coordination to be one of the best snipers in the military, but also one of the softest, sensitive hearts there is? 

      It happened to me. I have a natural talent for art to the point where I didn't even need to learn to draw, I was drawing picture-eque sketches and intricate paintings at like 8 years old. Guess what? I don't give a fuck about art despite this talent. I get bored at art museums, I don't find pleasure at staring at drawings and paintings, I don't feel passionate or emotionally connected to art as a medium at all, and I'm not sad that I've given it up. Haven't drawn in years. 

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    4. To conclude, I think many who come across this material tend to be liberals or leftists because ontological mathematics is "new", and it certainly isn't a traditionally embedded concept in society already. Many conservatives in particular tend to stick to ideas already conserved and entrenched in society, or ideas that have an excess historical presence to back them up. Also, if I'm being frank, you're one of the few libertarians who I believe has read the works all of the way through and didn't give up once you realized how different their political views are. 

      There are a couple others, such as Pythagoras Illuminatus (who I follow because I find his ideas interesting, although I don't agree with all of them). But overall I haven't seen many.

      As far as an atheist background goes... Haha. I was actually raised by New Age drug addicts. I honestly think that the only reason I'm as smart as I am is because they had a bunch of science books laying around and I happened to be hyperlexic. That didn't stop me from having to unlearn a bunch of bullshit all the way until my early twenties though. I know, what an L. At least I get to score 100% intuitive on the Meyer's Briggs I guess. And New Agers can often be liberals anyways so I guess that the shoe still fits. 

      I myself have chosen to completely distance myself from Illuminism. I have decided that I am not a good fit for it. My main gripe with Illuminism is honestly the whole "ignavi" bullshit. (I don't resonate with Dante's mythos at all if I'm being honest). I don't think many of these people are the best at discerning the difference between an ignavi and a synthetic thinker. There's a difference between someone who doesn't side with one position or another out of sheer laziness and an unwillingness to learn, and someone who can see good points from both sides and thus not take either side because they've formed a synthesis in their own minds. I like synthetic environments more than I like sticking to a thesis or an antithesis. The whole "you're with us or you're against us" "remember, the worst place in hell is for the ignavi" shit is just so cringe.

      I'll have to check Bernardo Kastrup out, thanks for the recommendation. 

      I guess that was several parts. Oops.

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    5. I must say I really enjoyed reading your very detailed comment. I'm glad you made the effort of publishing it over several comments. It's great to finally hear from someone, a fellow ignavi apparently :), who obviously knows as much about OM as I do. I remember you from some of your prior comments on other posts, as well. Like I've said before, I've only mentioned OM to two other people, and they of course knew nothing about it and, more tellingly, showed zero interest.

      You mentioned Illuminatus Pythagoras. Yes, I forget about him. He's definitely libertarian or at least libertarian leaning. I've also pretty much watched all his stuff too. He's seems to have fallen off a cliff though ever since he moved off of YouTube. He's actually not an OM'er at all really, but since he's idealistic and into Pythagoras he naturally lines up. I sent him a comment on one of his videos saying he can't reach nirvana (Buddhist ideal of not being re-born) because even if he could somehow transcend space-time, that state would only hold until the next "divine suicide", that is to say the cycling from the omega-point to the alpha point, and he was kind of like laughing -- a divine what? e.g. he obviously never heard of the concept. Divine suicides, alpha points, and omega points are all basic OM concepts, as you know. Admittedly, it does sound crazy if you've not familiar with OM though.

      You should take up the challenge and start your own blog. It's a small community, but there's even fewer independent posters. I still can't believe that I get 100 hits/ month on average of people reading articles I've written. I would love to hear your "My road to Pythagorean Illuminism" story ( mine is here https://mfaust1945.blogspot.com/2017/01/my-road-to-pythagorean-illuminism.html). I think everyone in this community has their own unique path into discovering PI. From the limited number of people that I have actually talked to about it , I think it's hard to make generalizations about what a "typical" OM'er is like, and your comment certainly shows that to me.

      Thank again for expressing your opinions and perspectives, and keep on learning and and keep on progressing.

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    6. @mfaustTAN1945

      **The Holy Grail**

      If a purpose of the God Series is to bring new recruits up to speed, there's no need to showcase the world their "Holy Grail" if such an object exists because they're not trying to convince the general public. If such an object is dangerous to use in the first place, why expose it to public scrutiny? That makes no sense. Same for all these initiation ceremonies, think of how incredibly taxing the mediatic attention would be - all for potentially little to no gain before the latest TikTok trend comes out and people move on. Remember that we're talking about a rationalist GUT, experiments and "evidence" are wholly unnecessary. If such things exist, I can imagine it's the icing on the rationalist cake.

      **The Secret Society**

      It's entertaining. It's compelling. It's fascinating. And it's irrelevant if you are an ontological mathematician because the very nature of the theory should propel you into action that is 100% aligned with the people that have put it into the public domain, whether they're a few people, a dozen people, hundreds or thousands. There is unquestionably an organisational structure in the production of this material because as the GS authors said themselves, how could 3 of them possible churn out material tackling the most complex issues of our existence in such a short time period. Material that while not 100% perfect is of a superbly high-quality when you consider the pace of writing.

      If such an Order exists, what's wrong with 6000 rationalists getting together for kinky sex every so often? To each their own, nobody is forcing you to "Sin for Salvation", do what you think is optimal for your own self-actualisation.

      **Meritocracy #1**

      I 100% want to get you started on meritocracy, if you find the time, please do elaborate on your understanding of it, why it's flawed and what your proposal is, all within the framework of ontological mathematics.

      **Libertarians & Conservatives**

      You've read the material, you know how hard AC/GS rails against capitalists, libertarians, anarcho-capitalists, US Republicans, conservatives... of course there's going to be few to none. That's why I'm so surprised to come across your blog, because how do you go through all that material and retain your core political and economic outlook? It's truly exceptional, especially in the niche of niches, that's why I'd love to see you reason it out so that I can understand better where you're coming from.

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    7. @Lighting Strike

      **Meritocracy #2**

      What does Meritocracy mean to you?

      It's not the 3 AC/GS authors that are going to come to power in your local community and dictate how you should live your life. It's YOU and the local activists that you engage with that will decide this, if you have such an inclination to change the status quo in the first place. Every community around the world will face the same situation and will have its idiosyncrasies. A revolution in Kenya is not going to play out in the same way as it would in Ireland, Romania or the United States. Activists across the world who share a similar outlook, let's say of Meritocracy, can certainly agree on minimum standards such as a long-term plan to implement 100% inheritance tax but you seem to be imagining a global top-down implementation plan which is completely unrealistic. Besides, no plan survives first contact. Plans evolve.

      **Technology**

      This is techno-utopianism. Currently technology is in the service of capitalists to maximise profit. A Star Trek future cannot possibly come about without overthrowing the Ferengi capitalists who will fight to the bitter end, even if the cost to produce food dropped to 0 labour (such as by using a Star Trek replicator), I guarantee you that the capitalist class will transmogrify to preserve their power and wealth using any means necessary.

      **Politics of force**

      We already live in a system that exercises violent force. Look up the number of evictions in any large city and who the victims are. This system is incredibly violent in very structural ways. The only language a ruling class understands is the politics of force which can range from halting production through strikes to full scale revolution. Capitalism itself is one of the most bloodthirsty systems on the planet. Such a system by its very nature cannot be overcome peacefully, something that communists - the hardcore enemies of capitalism - fully understood through every communist revolution, despite how said revolutions degenerated over time.

      **Working class**

      The AC/GS authors are not trying to appeal to the working class per se. You don't do that with intensely intellectual material that first of all requires the TIME and ENERGY to process. The people most likely to have the opportunity to think deeply on the material are the labour aristocracy (highly-paid workers, such as engineers) and those in comfortable office jobs. As you grew up in a trailer park, then you're fully cognizant that if you're, say, in a call centre handling non-stop phone calls for 8 hours or a store clerk attending snotty customers, good luck not being exhausted every day. Anyone that manages the material while living in that type of situation is a remarkably resilient person.

      **Angelina Dawson**

      I cannot comment on these other authors such as Angelina Dawson (first time I'm hearing about the author). But again, is she explicitly addressing the working class? Or adult INFPs and missing the mark? Or maybe young INFPs and therefore exactly hitting the mark? Everything has to be evaluated in context.

      Why not write your own take that would appeal to the working class?

      **Meritocracy #3**

      Again, you're viewing this through the lens of the AC/GS being masters of the universe. They are not the ones who will implement Meritocracy, especially not in your local community. It could very well be you who does this.

      To address your point, Meritocracy is about people thriving and developing to the greatest extent of their individual talent AND ambition. If a talented engineer wants to become a male stripper, then by all means, let's provide them with the full resources to realise their dream. If we actually pragmatically need more engineers in society, then let's incentivise them to spend some time on their non-passion. How about the equivalent of $2,000,000 a year for 1000 hours? These type of things are only possible when we can collectively decide how to allocate resources through competent representatives serving our interests.

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    8. **Ignavi**

      Not taking a side IS taking a side. You're saying that you're okay with the status quo. Maybe you are, but do you really think we're going to achieve the teleological purpose of the universe in so-called capitalist "democracies"? Is this the most rational and optimal way to organise our material reality in order to achieve enlightenment? Or is there a better way?

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  3. (1/2)

    I came across your videos and blog and decided to jump in because I can see that you're torn between OM and the accompanying political philosophy:

    In ontological mathematics, every monad is striving to achieve perfect symmetry, i.e. to become God.

    As a monad, we can choose to accomplish this through either cooperation or competition.

    The rational choice is cooperation, because why would you expend energy to fight others? It's far more economical to work together, especially if we're aware that we have the same exact aims and understanding of reality.

    If we choose cooperation, then our freedom ends when the freedom of other monads begins.

    Up to here, I would hope we are 100% in agreement.

    However, when you say that you're a libertarian, I'm assuming that you mean a right-wing libertarian, which is to say that you're a defender of private property and by extension capitalism. Private property being land, tools, machines and factories owned by individuals that are put to use for the purposes of commodity production: creating goods and services that are sold for profit. Accompanying this you would want minimal government intervention in your life.

    The issue here is that under a capitalist mode of production, the vast majority of us have no freedom. We are subject to the will of the capitalist class, they are the ones that decide what to produce, where to produce and how to produce. Add to this that it's a winner-takes-all-system, where we end up with monopolies because there's always a firm that outcompetes the rest. In every industry you'll see oligopolies, usually 4 firms with dominant market share, to provide the semblance of competition.

    Consider that under capitalism, nature is trashed because the freedom of capitalists allows them to infringe on the freedom of others who want to preserve nature in a pristine state.

    Consider that under capitalism, we're forced to rent homes from people that more often than not, already own several. Landlords profit by reducing the supply and lobbying government to limit new construction, which when it does take place, they're already in the best position to buy up thanks to the capital they've accumulated from rentals.

    Consider that... there are countless anti-capitalist arguments to be made. The entire government is bought and paid for by the capitalist class, which is why they need to be completely replaced.

    To this end, the God Series proposes Meritocracy: a system of the workers, by the best workers, for the workers that will fully rein in the excesses of capitalism.

    I'd sum it up with a simple question: What type of leaders do you think we should have? Middle managers that are backed by corporations to enact corporate policies? Or the best and brightest serving the general interest?

    If anything, nowadays I'd personally disagree with the AC/GS authors that capitalism can be reined in with "social capitalism" - to understand why, I highly recommend reading Marx, especially Das Kapital with the YouTube series from David Harvey (a Marxist professor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBazR59SZXk&list=PL0A7FFF28B99C1303), because you'll find Marx is a systems thinker of the highest calibre that is describing the mechanics of capitalism in-depth and how it cannot be tamed. Marxist Paul / Marxist Today is also a great introduction to the subject (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0J754r0IteXABJntjBg1YuNsn6jItWXQ). I've more to say at a later date or elsewhere on what a post-capitalist alternative could look like.

    To bring it all back to ontological mathematics, the issue that I, personally, have with your stance - keeping in mind I literally came across your content yesterday - is that by defending libertarianism/capitalism, you privilege the freedom of capitalist monads at the expense of working class monads, which is anathema to the concept of all of us becoming God. How can we make progress if so many of us are constantly worrying about how to pay the rent/bills?

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    1. (2/2)

      Lastly, I thoroughly enjoyed your article and hope you keep writing your thoughts / making videos on the whole ontological mathematics scene. What I find deeply amusing is that we have inverted interests. Since the beginning I've had far more interest in the political side than the ontological mathematics side and if anything, OM is what adds unnecessary weight to bringing Meritocracy to a wider audience, not the other way around because changing a regular person's political worldview is hard enough as it is without asking them to also change their entire religious/scientific outlook.

      Either way, it's only recently that I've started to catch up and get into the weeds with OM. So I do think you're mistaken in saying that OM was created as a tool to deliver a meritocratic/Jacobinistic payload. OM is the core and has always been *inextricably* linked with its revolutionary implications but your sheer interest in OM clouded that connection, although by your article, you always kind of knew. How else are any of us going to achieve gnosis if we're constrained by the surrounding system? Capitalism today, feudalism and religion in the past. Or look at it this way - gnosis is possible, but for something already astoundingly difficult to achieve, it's made even harder with all these material concerns. Hence the need to usher in a Star Trek future.

      As Marx said, "The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."

      More to say in later comments, maybe.

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    2. My email is screamerstar7@gmail.com if you want to hear my responses to your points and inquiries.

      I don't know if going back and forth on Meritocracy on the platform of somebody who is libertarian is conducive, so if you really want to engage with me further just send me an email and I will respond to the points you addressed to me here accordingly. I will say that some points I agree with you on, some points you made reflect that you have a firmer grasp on anti-capitalist politics than I do, and in other places I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

      As an aside, I appreciate that you responded to my comments maturely and appropriately, and not in an emotionally triggered, keyboard-warrior trollish way. Your conduct is much respected.

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    3. Just sent you an email.

      Happy to engage privately, although I do think there is benefit to public discussion even if @mfaustTAN1945 is a libertarian, as this post is about OM and its political package, which I think more people will come across over time and consequently will benefit from the differing viewpoints.

      If you, reader, are one of these people, then jump in to the comments assuming @mfaustTAN1945 you're fine with this (I do know you would much rather spend time discussing OM itself but I'm viewing this as your go-to place to discuss OM politics on the blog).

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  4. @Jaguar
    Hi Jaguar. Just saw your response the other night. Wow, that's a lot to comment on, but like @LightningStrike, I also commend you on your very mature and thoughtful response. No, I don't have any trouble with you (whether @Jaguar, @LightningStrike, or anyone else) posting a thread on this site. I too think everyone can benefit from our making it publicly available. Unfortunately, yes I know how limited the commenting mechanism is on google blogger, having to split up several of my own comments in the past as well.

    My first response to your posting, was to actually create an entire new post responding to each of your points. I was going to call it something like "Response to an Orthodox Meritocrat". And I may indeed do that, but I think I'll just start off with a couple of comments first.

    So first let me say it's great to hear from any OM'ers. We're all into the same source material, so that makes us all Brother's as far as I'm concerned. And it always great to hear from my brothers, even if we don't agree. The reason I even saw your comment at all was that my site has started to get more traffic than usual for the last several months, esp. this "Tale of Two Patterns" post. So I was just re-reading it again to refresh my memory on exactly what I said, and I happened to see your comments.

    Ok, so I can see you are definitely more of a "prototypical" OMer than I am, in that you appear to be a staunch and passionate supporter of all things Meritocracy (although you do say you disagree with the authors about "social capitalism"). You are the first "orthodox" commenter on this blog site. I've only had about 2-4 commenters before, but they have mostly agreed with me -- at least on my criticisms of OM/PI/AC. But everyone is welcome here, and I suppose if I can dish it out, I may also be called to defend myself!

    So here goes.

    I found really insightful your comment about how you've "had far more interest in the political side than the ontological mathematics" and how you consider OM as adding an "unnecessary weight" to the promotion of Meritocracy. Yes, that truly is an inversion of my interests. I'm curious, are you Meyer-Briggs INT? Because I think the mathematics and the metaphysics is like a drug to an INT. They said this in their early books and boy were they right with me. To me the politics is very mundane, in the literal sense, mundane meaning "of the world". I mean there's nothing especially interesting about it, I think even if you agree with it. To me it's simply "yet another political/economic model". It's definitely my least favorite topic in the OM-space. But I'm glad you made this comment, as it sure seems that Meritocracy is the most important thing with just about everyone else in the "official" OM community (i.e. non-hyperian), and that statement basically re-affirms the thesis of this post. I'm not going to argue with you on this one, as I respect your right to pursue what you find most interesting. It's not like I'm "right" and you're "wrong", but it blows *me* away that anyone holds this position, probably as much as my position blows you away.

    In sifting through some of your questions, I see that some of them are directed at me and some are directed at @LightningStrike, but one question is what is my position on Meritocracy. Well, i wrote an entire post on that already https://mfaust1945.blogspot.com/2022/04/on-meritocracy.html , so I just refer you to that. You probably will disagree with everything I say there, and it doesn't necessarily get into all the subtle points you make in your comment, but I would offer that up as a starting point, at least in a comment where my space is limited.

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  5. I mean I guess my basic position is I'm not especially interested in getting into a Libertarianism vs. Meritocracy battle with you or anyone. If you feel passionate about Meritocracy, and you think it's the best way forward, then I applaud you for it, and I encourage you to become an activist, and try to "convert" as many people as possible. And to be blunt, I honestly couldn't care less what you think about Libertarianism or that you don't like it. To that I say fine. The vast majority of the population has utter disdain for it anyway. It's not like I've ever met anyone who doesn't agree with me on this. I would be more surprised if you said you supported it. I mean, ideally I would think it's good if more people believed in it (small government), from a self-interest POV. I mean if there were things that I could tell that would make you "believe" in Libertarianism, I *would* say them. But I know from experience (in VR chat rooms) this almost *never* works, any more than me reading all the hundreds of pages touting Meritocracy in the GS/TS changed my mind. Libertarianism is all about freedom. I'm not trying to convert or convince anyone of my position. Just that for me, having read and thought about it vs. other economic models, it's the best system, or more accurately, the least worst. Maybe this is because I'm totally ignorant, but that's just how I feel.

    What I do disagree with vis a vis the AC/PI is *their* total disdain for *my* position. I'm OK with other people not agreeing with me. The AC tells anyone who is a Libertarian, or a Socialist, or a to "fuck off", and to not associate in any way with them or their community. I 100% find it objectionable, but perhaps even more perplexing: I am 100% mystified by it. Why are these people who are so smart and rational, and so critical of Science's absolutism and narrow-mindedness (scientism) doing exactly the same thing with their system? The blog post associated with this comment is my attempt to understand that.

    I said I don't care if you pursue Meritocracy. There is one caveat to that. If somehow your side gains so much power that you forcibly try to coerce me into becoming a Meritocrat. Then I would object, and very strongly object to that. At that point we would become mortal enemies. But fortunately for me, I believe that Meritocracy has even less chance of becoming the law of the land than Libertarianism, and that's saying a lot. Unfortunately, Libertarian also has zero chance as well, so *you* don't have to worry about my side either.

    So why does the AC spend so much time attacking Libertarians then? They're not a threat. It's the woke left that's a threat. I'm 60 years old. It's very unlikely I'll flip my politics at this age. The AC should be going after college age kids. They spent 90% of their time attacking libertarians, conservatives, and "Trumpanzees", but only 10% going after the left. If they try to recruit college age kids, they should have spent 90% of their time "deconstructing" the Left. Of course, they did do this toward the end, and they found out how moralistic, self-righteous, and intolerant the woke left actually is. Their books are no longer available on Amazon. My guess is they got cancelled. It's easy to attack conservatives -- we're used to it. It's a whole other story taking on Wokeism with their cancel culture. They found this out too late.

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  6. Hey mfaustTAN1945,

    Thank you for your comments.

    Yes, as an INTJ, although that was a long time ago and never an official test.

    There's no need for the politics to be "interesting" (except in the Mythos sense), what matters most is whether it can bring us closer to divinity, i.e. mathematical perfection.

    Thanks for sharing your Meritocracy post, I just read through it and the crux of the matter is not so much Libertarianism vs Meritocracy, especially as with the latter I think you are only seeing it through the strongly expressed views of the AC and associated authors in general, rather it's between Capitalism and Post-Capitalism.

    If Libertarianism is about freedom, then surely you would agree that does not include the freedom to exploit others, which is precisely what capitalism accomplishes. There's no voluntary exchange if one side has the pressure to eat and have a roof over their head. It becomes slavery with extra steps, all that changes is that you're free to pick a new master or better said, compete with the other slaves and hope they pick you.

    The reason you may be mystified by the vitriol against libertarians is that, you're not only defending the status quo, you also want an even more extreme version of it where there is minimal government interference, i.e. cut back on taxes, reduce regulations and cut social spending. This is already what happens, the UK is a prime example of how disastrous this formula is - so disastrous in fact, that Liz Truss, the Libertarian Prime Minister, was ousted out of office after 6 weeks because the strategists for Capital realised the damage her tax cuts would cause to an already strained system, a recipe for fuelling massive public unrest.

    In other words, capitalism is the root cause of our societal ills and you're asking for more of the same with even less government protection, which I hope helps to clarify how that's going to generate a lot of hate.

    It also becomes baffling for others to see a worker hold this position, as it's against one's own self-interest. The exception is if you yourself are wealthy and/or a capitalist, i.e. you have employees, rental properties and/or dividend paying stocks. All quite likely as an engineer, in which case, it perfectly explains your position, your thinking becomes a product of your circumstances as the majority of software engineers tend to lean libertarian.

    If you're ever interested in discussing this further, let me know, whether it's email or a public format.

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  7. The above segways into why the AC would attack libertarians, because as a more extreme version of capitalism, a system already bringing us to the precipice, then it does become dangerous. Look at Argentina today, a country fleeced by capitalists, both inside and abroad and now they have a Libertarian President who I guarantee you is only going to make things worse.

    With Wokeism, keep in mind it's only in the last 5+ years that this has become a term/movement/whatnot. The books start from 2011 onwards. Wokeism in the end is another tool in the capitalist playbook that is dividing and conquering the working class by placing enormous emphasis on identity politics instead of class-based politics. The former has zero threat to the capitalist class while the latter is an existential one. In the end, all struggles, including over gender, racism and identity in general lead back to capitalism, which is the Marxist take.

    On that note, I think you have never read Marxist literature. Which again I would highly encourage you to do so because this is a systematic approach to understanding the world based on the real movement of things and people. It's referred to as "scientific socialism" for good reason as it's all about the mechanics of capitalism.

    Some suggested texts:

    - Articles from marxist.com such as https://www.marxist.com/what-is-marxism-book/introduction.htm and https://www.marxist.com/marxism-vs-libertarianism.htm
    - The German Ideology
    - Wage, Labour and Capital
    - Value, Price and Profit
    - YouTubers such as Marxism 101, Second Thought or Richard Wolff (a Marxist Economist that went to Harvard, Stanford and Yale)
    - Das Kapital (either with a reading group and/or with David Harvey's lectures)

    The reason I'm suggesting this is because you'll see a wholly different approach to analysing the world that is separate from the AC authors. Frankly, I'd forget everything you've read about Meritocracy and instead become versed in Marxism and if you do, then you'd probably be literally the only Libertarian in the world to do so, while being able to converse with actual leftists (not "Woke left" ones). You'd understand socialism better than most socialists, who only have cursory familiarity with Marx.

    Then after that if revisit the AC or Meritocracy's viewpoints you may see them in a new light.

    By the way, although unusual, one can be a Marxist without being a socialist or communist.

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  8. Hi Jaguar. I Enjoyed reading your response. I know I said I didn't want to get into a debate, but you're slowly beginning to draw me out. Another thing I noticed is that you have a penguin in your user icon as well. So it kind of looks like this is turning into a battle of the penguins, ha.

    Like I said originally, to properly state my position and to argue all your points requires at least a whole posting. But I think it's kind of fruitful to have this interactive back and forth first, so I'm going to keep the commenting going although I will probably have enough material for an entire posting by the time we're done.

    Incidentally, I think it's unfortunate that the OM/AC doesn't have a place on Reddit or something, where people like us and anyone else in the community can freely post their ideas on OM. I know there have been attempts in the past to try to get these sort of things (I know, because I've seen them), but for some reason no one ever posted. I never posted because I'm honoring the request of the AC to stay away from their community. As to if that was the reason why other people didn't post, I don't know. But I'm just saying, if the AC were a little more open to outside opinions, we wouldn't have to be having this debate on this less than ideal platform.

    Ok, so I agree we can probably drop the libertarian aspect from this thread, and instead just consider the capitalism/ post-capitalism aspect of it. It probably won't surprise you that I also happen to be pro-capitalist as well.

    You start your last response off basically blaming capitalism for all of our current woes and point out all the flaws of it. I don't deny that capitalism is far from perfect. That's why I always like to say capitalism is the "best" in the sense that it is the "least worst". I don't deny that our society has problems, that there are flaws with capitalism, that some people do not do well under capitalism, and that's there's unequal outcomes etc. The question is, can Meritocracy do better?

    Everything has it's time and place. You do things that make sense when you're 16, that don't make sense when your 40. I believe the same can be said for "homo sapiens" as they evolve along their trajectory from animal, to human, and then god. We are no longer animals, but were still "merely" human, and obviously not yet gods. That is to say our culture, collectively, is squarely at the animal/human level of development, but for brevity sake let's just say it's at the human level. That is to say any cultural level "objects" such as the economy are a reflection of *our* underlying level of development. While humans have many good qualities beyond animals, such as forethought, compassion, language etc., let's face it, the thing that still drives us (and therefore the economy) are things like greed, fear, exploitation, ego, and thirst for power. Thus, I would say the two things that characterize our current culture are it's humanity, and it's culture of scarcity (vs. lets say god-level, with culture of abundance).

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  9. To me, Meritocracy is a utopian model. It might be a useful model for the economy once we collectively transition to human/gods (that is to say not fully gods, but human/god hybrids, or humans with full understanding of OM, say). I would quickly riff on this notion, and say that most utopians are in fact dystopian -- at least that's the message of 1984, and Brave New World. Utopias in a culture of scarcity are unstable. As a result they can tolerate no divergence from the mean, and they have a tendency to be authoritarian. I think utopias can work in a culture of abundance however. Thus Meritocracy might have a place once we evolve further along toward the god direction *and* obtain a culture of abundance.

    However, for the current human level of evolution *and* culture of scarcity, capitalism is the best (least worst). The quickest way to get a post-capitalism society is *through* capitalism, not *around* it (what you want via Meritocracy *now*). In other words, capitalism is a necessary phase on the path to Godhood. You complain about the exploitation and greed of capitalism. But exploitation and greed are fundamental properties of humans, thus our current economy. Meritocracy wants to deny this, and try to control greed and exploitation. That's a noble goal, but it won't work in practice. And because Meritocracy is not aligned with our current culture, it will necessarily involve a large amount of force if implemented before it's time and place in history.

    So just like you should be footloose and fancy-free when you're young (that's the appropriate model for that phase of development), and you should be responsible and hard-working when your older, for our current level of development, capitalism is the best, and perhaps Meritocracy is the best as we get "older". The mistake you make is thinking that Meritocracy is the best way to get to the next level, but it's not. It's only (perhaps) the best once we get there.

    Yes, It's a problem that people (humans) are greedy and exploitive. But the best way to deal with that is to embrace it, not deny it. Make lemonade out of lemons so to speak.

    It's like what the best way to move a heavy boulder? People have wondered forever how primitive man moved all the heavy stones to build Stonehenge or the pyramids. Well this person (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pZ7uR6v8c) has figured out a way to do it using balance and counter-balance. That is to say pivot the rock about the fulcrum, and exploit or utilize the weight to actually help you move it -- e.g. use the weight of half the stone to help lift the other half. Lemonade out of lemons indeed.

    Q:How does capitalism put a check on any one person or entity gaining too much power? i.e. how do you control people's greed and exploitation?
    A: through other peoples greed and desire to exploit.

    In other words, competition among the greed and power-seekers. They naturally keep each other in check, as long as no one achieves monopoly status. Monopolies are bad. They drive out competition. A government is the quintessential example of a monopoly. To the extent that we have near monopolies, like Google, is to the extent that government has enabled the environment by trying to overly regulate the economy, which almost always backfires. Big companies always seek out government to increase regulations so smaller competitors can no longer compete. Use, and dare I say exploit, other people's greed and try to channel it into building new things, or discovering ideas that benefit society. Thus by trying to benefit themselves they, unintentionally perhaps, benefit society.

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  10. This is like the difference between knowledge and wisdom. A *knowledgeable* fighter, will try to become the best fighter he can be, practice long, so he doesn't lose when he fights. A *wise* fighter will try to make friends with his enemies so he doesn't have to fight in the first place (or hire bodyguards to fight for him -- which is kind of a fake wisdom). In other words, when the going gets tough, the knowledgeable fight, but the wise transcend.

    Don't fight the nature of humanity, and try to control it (knowledge based solution). Instead embrace the nature of humanity, and seek to take advantage of it, by letting it free and thus, in a certain sense, transcending it (wisdom-based solution).

    The economy isn't an ordinary object. Think of it as a hyper-object *1. A very complicated 1000-d object with quintillions of levers, such that if you try to "whack a mole" to fix one problem, five other moles pop up somewhere else. Ever try to "fix" a problem on your computer, only to make things worse? Don't needlessly mess around with things you don't understand. Please beware and heed the law of unintended consequences. The economy is a god-level object. No humans, or group of humans, no matter how smart can completely understand the economy. Even as something as simple as deciding on the price of something. The best way is to let the market decide. It's only the hubris and arrogance of the intelligent and educated classes (your typical Meritocrat and OM'er) that make them believe in the folly of trying to tame and optimize this beast.

    *1 I got this idea from book "Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFO's, Philosophy, and the End of the World" from James D. Madden.

    Funnily enough, we might be coming to the end of capitalism soon due to AI. Isn't it appropriate that the final creation of Capitalism *is* a super-intelligence, that is to say god-level intelligence? Will AI will bring an end to capitalism because it creates so much wealth, thus giving us an infinite amount of money and thus, in effect, negating money?

    Yes, this is the technological singularity -- the rapture of the nerds. Yes, it is utopian. But remember I said Utopias are good in a culture of abundance. And also I'm an Engineer and programmer, so give me a break.

    I'm also aware the technology can go wrong and create a dystopia. But think of the power of AI, running on quantum computers, powered by Nuclear Fusion. Throw in some genetic engineering, and that my friends, is a culture of abundance. And maybe all this in the next twenty years(?)

    Ok, so there's a basic outline of my response. I could on in *much* more detail. But there's some basic ideas I came up with during my run today, in response to your comments. I'm kind of betting you didn't think I would come at it from this angle. I could cite all the traditional arguments in favor of capitalism too, but I tried to provide arguments that you may have never heard before. I believe it's a little more OM-friendly. Whether you agree or disagree, please bear in mind that my support for Capitalism and Libertarianism is very principled, at least to me. It's not just merely opinion or faith based on my part.

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  11. Since I'm on a roll at the moment, let me say a few comments on the idea of a "100% inheritance tax". I said before the most perplexing thing about OM to me is how they do exactly what they criticize Science for -- being closed minded to people who have different ideas. But the concept of a "100% inheritance" tax has to be the second most perplexing thing to me (followed by BDSM/sin for salvation, but that's another topic...).

    It always amazes me how generous the Left is with OPM (Other People's Money). I happen to live in a very liberal county of California, but the roads are abysmal. Why? Because my county is only one of the few in the state that do *not* have an extra 1/2 cent sales tax for road maintenance. Seems the liberal have a very different opinion toward taxes when it applies to *them*.

    Why is not ok to pass on to your offspring any wealth that you may have accumulated during your lifetime, but is OK to pass on, let's say, certain genetic advantages? Let's specifically consider the case of IQ/intelligence. Yes, it's true that you have no choice since you cannot "take" IQ from somebody. So this will have to be a hypothetical question. But let's say intelligence/IQ was as fungible as money e.g. it could be extracted from you or your children just like Austin Power's "mojo".

    If this were the case, do think it would be fair to extract some IQ points from your newborn baby, since a group of wealthy but low IQ members of society decided your children have too much of an unfair advantage? Let's say both you and your wife have an IQ of 140. IQ, like other genetic traits such as height and beauty is largely heritable (not perfect but I think like 85% heritable). So let's say your kid is born and they can determine he also has an IQ of 140. But since this is an inheritance, the Meritocratic state says they can extract 40 points and then give 10 IQ points to four 90 IQ babies. And let's say those babies "should" have had an IQ of 100, but because their mothers decided to do drugs during their pregnancy, their IQ was only 90. Thus your child has to sacrifice his genetic inheritance, to compensate for the irresponsibility of their mothers.

    Do you think this would be fair? Consider also that in a Meritocratic society intelligence and IQ would be the new currency. The most prized and cherished member of a Meritocratic society would be the intellectuals. It's rule by the philosophers after all, and philosopher's currency is their intelligence.

    What about a variant? Would it be OK to "sacrifice" a low IQ baby, say one with IQ 80, and extract 20 IQ points from him (lowering him to 60) to give to *your* child so he could be a super-genius with IQ 160?

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    1. I don't want to get involved in the intricacies of this debate between you and Jaguar, because I wouldn't mind seeing you two hash it out naturally. However, I felt compelled to point pertinent something out; the AC are pro-eugenics and pro-genetic engineering, although it is very important to understand that this is from a left -wing context and not a right-wing context [as in the case of Nazism].

      "The post WW2 liberal propaganda has absolutely brainwashed people into fearing eugenics - another system 1 shortcircuit that tells people that to consciously improve reproduction is somehow tantamount to NAZISM. The problem is that Nazi eugenics was tied to the Nazi racial mythos. And American eugenics before that often had racist undertones too. The solution? LEFT-WING eugenics. In other words, emphatically not the eugenics of particular groups dominating others or creating a caste society, but the ubiquitous, equal advancement of everybody - an anti-racist eugenics who's purpose is to advance humanity generally."
      - Dave Sinclair: The Philosophy of Dare; Are you one of the Daring Ones?

      "Eugenics - It has been estimated that some 25% of Greek babies died in their first year of life. Life was spectacularly harsh. Disease was rife. Only the fittest survived. Given how hard it was for fit, healthy newborn babies to survive, the Greeks had no time, energy, or concern for weak babies. Infanticide was very widespread, with 5-10% of babies being deemed unfit for life, so their parents were offered to get rid of them, usually by leaving them exposed at the foot of the mountain, where they soon perished. In the modern world, many people of all ages, from newborns to centrarians, are automatically looked after by the state even though their quality of life is close to zero and they are a huge burden on their carers and taxpayers. Since these unfortunated are already effectively dead, why are they maintained in empty shells of life at expense and trouble? For who's benefit? Since people's souls cannot die, we are not condemning anyone to death by letting their current, weak body perish naturally. They will be reborn in a newer body and have a much higher quality of life. It's cruel and unnatural to imprison people in bodies that have failed. Why should we be forced to follow the Judeo-Christian morality that only "God" can decide when death occurs. No, we shall decide!"
      - Mike Hockney: World, Underworld, Over world, Dreamworld

      If you have a Facebook account, I'd also recommend previewing Thomas Foster's account as he has written essays in defense of both eugenics and genetic engineering.

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    2. In other words, the AC authors and many Illuminists have no qualms about eugenics and genetic engineering. They don't have a problem with humanity "correcting" for imperfect genes that lead to ugly appearances, disease-prone bodies, and suboptimal brains, such that everyone gets an "equal" enough chance at least via nature. They certainly aren't "woke" that way, and they do differ from many liberal interpretations in that way.

      This suggests to me that in an ultimate left-wing society, they will utilize genetic engineering to make each citizen the most intelligent, beautiful, and healthy as possible without sacrificing the genes of other citizens. To sacrifice the genes of some citizens to enhance the genes of other citizens is ultimately a right -wing stance, not a left-wing one, and has already been explored by right-wing socialism (AKA Nazism).

      However, I will concede that they don't talk about genetic inequalities nearly enough, especially in comparison to the lengths in which they often talk about economic inequalities [and is there a correlation between these two phenomena that ought to be explored?]. In my opinion, as somebody who leans left-wing, it is a fatal mistake for any left-wing movement to NOT discuss genetic inequalities and how they may reasonably correct for such, as MANY people feel just as held back by their genetic hand as they do their economic hand in life.

      Personally, this is probably the most salient reason why I despise the woke despite being left-wing. They interpret genetics, genetic engineering and other like topics in a very emotionalist, Christianic manner (i.e. physical and mental handicaps are just 'differences', not disabilities, etc.).

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    3. Very good points. I am definitely pro-eugenics as well, at least in this left-wing sense of it. I don't see any harm in genetically fixing problems or limitations, or enhancing individuals, even if it's passed on to future offspring -- that is to say if it affects the genotype and not just merely the phenotype (as a matter of fact, even better if passed on I say). This might be at least one point I think we can all three agree on.

      I mean the age of enhancement by evolution or selective breeding is over. It's genetic engineering (GE) from here out. That's kind of what I mean by a type of culture of abundance whereby Meritocracy is more of a natural fit (it's probably also a good environment for collective libertarianism as well). Of course, in the Star Trek fan-verse, this topic has already been discussed. With the rise of Kahn, who genetically engineered himself more than anyone else, and developed a serious case of "delusions of grandeur" (with the ability to actually carry it out), the federation outlawed the use of GE to improve anyone, including low-IQ babies (e.g doctor Bashir on Deep Space 9). So it's great that the "lower classes" can GE themselves up to IQ 130, but do they really gain anything if the upper classes crank themselves up to 280? This is the same problem with ASI (artificial super intelligence). Will one ASI take off, and become omnipotent, possibly in a matter of hours?

      Not arguing against usage of GE though, just keep in mind that everything *always* has unintended consequences, and it might not be as easy as we think.

      I think the best way to alleviate the wealth differential is similar in spirit. Ideally, make everyone "rich" instead of wealth re-distribution. Of course this cannot be with GE, but @LS I think you're right in your suggestion that intelligence correlates with wealth.

      Also, @LS, feel free to join the convo. There's nothing for Jaguar and me to "hash out" -- as soon as everyone agrees I'm right, we can all go home (JK).

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  12. Or is it simply just not fair to take what does not belong to you? The golden rule after all.

    My guess is, like the liberal taxpayers in my county who don't want to tax themselves, most Meritocrats would be opposed to the confiscation of their IQ's. As far as the variant goes, my guess is most would say they are against this too, but many would secretly be OK with stealing IQ points as long as it benefitted their babies.

    If you have a high IQ what did you do to achieve it? Nothing. You inherited it. IQ is different than education. Education is not heritable. And you have to work, hard, to get a good education. If it's OK to confiscate someone's wealth (material assets), esp. if they created it and did not inherit it, why is it *not* OK to confiscate someone's intelligence, assuming it was possible to do so?

    It's easy for people who don't have material wealth, and who don't value it very highly, to feel it's OK to take it from other people. But when it comes to their "wealth" and the thing *they* care about, they can see how wrong it is for other to take from them.

    Also, it seems likely that the only people who would pay 100% of the wealth would be the middle class. One, because they have money -- maybe like 2 million dollars. Two, they won't have enough money or knowledge to shelter or hide their assets. The very wealthy, while they may lose 90% of their wealth, will somehow (probably by donating to politicians) manage to shelter 10% of their wealth. A 100% inheritance tax will devastate the middle class, and ironically give more relative power to the upper class. Even with 10% of their parents prior wealth, relative to a society that has no middle class at all, the upper class will survive and gain even further power. The law of unintended consequences once again.

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  13. @mfaustTAN1945 I've replied over the next couple of comments below to your 5 comments from 27/02 and yes, I chose another Tux avatar on purpose :).

    **Human nature**
    There is no sufficient reason for monadic nature to be greedy. It's the Will to Power. Each monad starts as a blank slate and gradually acquires preferences. The choice is between cooperation or domination and you're choosing the latter, the current system, which is detrimental for the vast majority of the population.

    It's a system that privileges the few over the many, where certain monads have decided to dominate the rest and inflict such a degree of false consciousness that the rest of monads start to defend the dominant ones and even view it as their Divine Right to rule over us. That is capitalism in a nutshell. Feudalism with extra steps.

    In general your defense of capitalism is based on the human nature argument, which is commonly used when defending the status quo. What you're saying is that the vast majority of people are greedy (in order to qualify as "human nature"). The vast majority of people are working for capitalists, so if they're all greedy, why are they not immediately overthrowing their capitalist bosses? If anything they are manipulated into being docile and kept distracted despite producing ALL the value for the capitalist class.

    The human nature argument is fallacious because anything humans do is "human nature". Human nature evolves and changes. Here's a communist take on the issue: https://libcom.org/article/human-nature-and-communism

    **Culture of scarcity**

    The scarcity you're talking about is also false, it's artificially generated. There are 20,000,000 empty homes in the United States. There are 600,000+ homeless. This has a very simple solution: take 600,000 empty homes and give them to the homeless, along with the resources to restart their life. It's actually proven to be cheaper to do this than the cost of paying for incarceration and policing. Another example is food: we produce enough for 10bn people, yet despite being able to feed an additional 3000 million people, 9 million die every year from starvation. The reason? Capitalism, it's not profitable to feed them.

    **Post-capitalism transition**

    Your premise that capitalism is required to transition to meritocracy echoes the same dialectical analysis as Marxists. Capitalism breeds the seeds of socialism, which will in turn breed the seeds of communism. Capitalism sells workers the rope with which to hang itself, as you cannot have vast abundance that is constantly out of the reach of the working class that produces that abundance in the first place.

    **Controlling greed with greed**

    Controlling greed through other people's greed is frankly, insane. You're describing a mafia state, a free for all where everyone is against everyone. Only the strongest and most violent players survive that outcome. That's what all anarchy boils down to. It's Haiti in 2024. I know though as a libertarian you'd still espouse minimal government but I don't think you understand that corporations ALREADY have better and more resources than governments. A government is simply overseeing the affairs of the bourgeoisie - the capitalist class.

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  14. **Understanding the economy**

    I don't understand why you're ascribing religious qualities to the economy. Everything is intelligible. Everything can be understood. The economy is in fact, very simple. The rich fuck over the poor. That's literally it. Everyone knows it, deep down. The only reason it SEEMS complicated is because it's made so on purpose, to deliberately obfuscate what's going on and because experts have a tendency to create self-serving language to justify their roles. What's a naked credit-default swap? A fancy term for taking out an insurance policy on a complete stranger's home and hoping it burns down.

    It's actually very strange that you're elevating the economy to a god-level object, especially as you're someone that has read all of the GS/TS books and more. It's anathema to ontological mathematics, where _everything_ can be understood. Or would the market be more powerful than the Community of Gods?

    **Artificial intelligence**

    AI cannot be conscious as demonstrated in the God Series, therefore it can never attain god-level intelligence. Only monads are alive and on the inevitable path to Godhood. That "AI" will be useful, most certainly. It won't bring about the end of capitalism by itself, if anything, it will bring about an even more brutal cycle of exploitation. Consider that "AI" is powered by thousands of data labellers in third-world countries in the first place. Despite its usefulness, it's currently a massive plagiarism machine that will run out of human content to feed itself as you cannot feed AI-generated content to an AI algorithm and hope to retain any semblance of quality.

    **Culture of abundance**

    We already have abundance. Production and distribution is in the hands of capitalists whose only care is to maximise profit. Remove them from the equation and we can start to rationally plan the economy, ensuring abundance for all and even facilitating social entrepreneurship - instead of frivolous start-ups that appeal to our lowest common denominator, we could actually fund projects with social utility that meet people's highest desires and needs.

    **Road maintenance**

    If you have abysmal road maintenance that's because there's no profit in maintaining them. Just to be clear, liberals are capitalists. In many ways, they are the worst kind of capitalists because they are far more effective at neutralising post-capitalist ideas than conservatives. Think about people such as John Oliver, who channel anger at a range of injustices in an entertaining way and yet... never question the underlying system. Why would he when he makes $10-20m a year?

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  15. **Inheritance tax**

    Inheritance is completely irrational, you're talking about supporting necrocracy: rule of the dead. You're saying that adults when they hit 40+ on average, deserve an injection of cash and properties from their deceased parents. I thought competition was the name of the game? It's a contradiction to support both.

    With inheritance you can see how you instantly create a dynastic MONOPOLY over time... how are others going to compete against that? Especially if these dynastic monopolies start using their wealth to influence what other people think from the moment they're born, all to ensure they never rise up to oppose them. Besides, they can't because private property is "sacred".

    Instead of some people getting inheritance, why not have community inheritance, where when you're *young*, say at 22, you receive $25,000 to start your life? A fair chance for everyone, along with a basic guaranteed standard of living that includes housing, food, water, education and health.

    Also 100% inheritance tax is the ideal, a transitional measure would be the Millionaire's Inheritance Tax where nobody can inherit more than $1,000,000. Anything above that, taxed at 100%.

    **Stealing IQ**

    In your hypothetical example you're talking about the rich stealing IQ from the poor. I'm laughing because that's 100% what would happen because they can impose their will on the poor. Look at surrogate mothers, if you're rich and infertile, you can pay someone $100,000 to have a child that you then snatch from them. Under capitalism, this is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged. It's "voluntary" exchange after all.

    Genetically, I think you're forgetting about the regression to the mean. Tall parents do not constantly give birth to tall children, otherwise we'd have giants and midgets walking the earth.

    It's a false equivalence fallacy with a hypothetical example that while entertaining, as you've said yourself is impossible. We have to ground ourselves in reality.

    **Final thoughts**

    I think you want to have your cake and eat it, i.e. you're comfortably off and love ontological mathematics but cannot accept the teleology, as evidenced by your statements. Becoming God is mathematically inevitable for all of us, so we're either on the Godhood train or actively trying to derail it. We're either working together or against each other. Capitalism is the latter, it's a violent system imposed upon us by force throughout hundreds of years (see: imperialism).

    As I said before, forget about Meritocracy and study Marxism with an open mind (such as the links I posted before) because Meritocracy will never become appealing if you are deeply immersed in capitalist ideology. The knee-jerk reaction is to dismiss it, gloss over it or completely demonise it. There's a reason for that, because it's the bible of the working class that explains how capitalism *actually operates* from the backdrop of dialectical materialism. It's an invaluable method to understanding material reality, which can be integrated within the framework of OM (simply revert dialectical materialism back to dialectical idealism, i.e. to the mathematical nature of reality).

    Lastly I say this with the best of intentions and not as an ad hominen, I think your reason is deeply clouded by (a) living in the US (b) your career/wealth and (c) your age, because as you said, it's tough to change. You're not yet seeing that capitalism is an obstacle to *actively* overcome in our journey of working together to achieve collective Godhood.

    ReplyDelete

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